Return to Work Success Story Part 4: Danielle Dobson

You’ve made it to the last part of our 4-part return to work success story interview series! I’ve loved sharing insights with you from my good friend and successful career mom Danielle Dobson. You can find part 1 here, part 2 here, and part 3 here.

In this final installment, you’ll read about her most difficult challenges returning to paid work, as well, as taking care of yourself and raising children to value women who work.

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Anna: You mentioned it was hard to return back to paid work. So, what was the hardest thing once you started working that you had to manage?

Danielle: Managing my own expectations. So, in my career, I always thought, “100% or it’s not good enough.” So, I wanted to operate back at that level again in my work. I thought, “If I’ve decided to do this working thing again, it's got to be hundred percent.” But being a 24/7 parent, flying solo, that wasn't possible. So, it was the expectation of wanting to do my best possible job and feeling I couldn’t meet it.

I kept telling myself, “You’re exactly where you need to be right now. And being a parent as well, and being present with that, will help you with work. It won't be as quick, but it will help. Doing these two roles well will, overall, be beneficial. Just throwing yourself back into work is not going to work. That was in the past. This is a new world that you’ve stepped into where it's not sustainable to operate like that.”

Managing my own expectations was the hardest thing—managing my own ambitions and being ok with where I was at.

Anna: And do you feel like you've made a big difference between then and now?

Danielle: Yeah, for sure. This is the whole thing with it. It’s a slow build. It's a bit-by-bit, daily moment-by-moment build. And it's been building capacity in the boys. Slowly building, not just parachute dropping them in and they’re latchkey kids, but a slow build of leaving, getting them to do more around the house, getting them to get dinner or something, stretching out the time when they're home alone. And just normalizing all the stuff that needs to be done around the house like a big group mission. I was getting frustrated one time, and I just sat there at dinner, and I wrote down all the jobs, all the human flourishing jobs. It was a couple of pages of them. And I asked, “So how many of these do you guys do? And they were like, "Oh, one or two.” So, just normalizing all that stuff, especially around the gender stuff that I’m doing. I want to make sure that everyone just sees everything that needs done around the house. It's just part of our jobs.

And self-compassion, my way isn't the only way, and it might not be the best way, but it's the way that I've been doing it for years and years. It's okay. Because you've been training your brain to do it this way. You built efficiencies, you built those muscles really strong, Danielle. Others haven’t yet. So, they’re building that now. You’ve got to be patient.

Anna: And I remember also talking with you several years ago, and you were saying that what you needed was to work out. So, knowing what you need, first, but then also managing to figure that out. When you're a single parent with three boys, how do you get to work out? And I remember you figuring out the ways to do that. Whether it was going swimming and, since some of your older kids were old enough to stay with the younger ones, just telling them, “I'm going to be gone in the morning to go swim. I'll be back.” And also having the kids hang out at your lacrosse games, and I remember you saying to them, “I hang out at your lacrosse games, you can hang out at mine.”

Danielle: Exactly. It comes back to that thing at the center. So that's where I used to think it was health and well-being. I start my day with exercise and a morning routine. So, I get up early. Because it's important to me, and I know how I'm going to feel afterwards. I tap into that. But I think it's actually about human flourishing, because for me, working out is working time out for me.

I'm training to get my kids to get themselves ready for school in the morning. And a lot of parents won't do that. And that's totally okay. But for me, it's what's important. And that's where I make my decisions from because I know how much it's going to benefit me. Because it's so important, I’ve done what I've needed to do to be able to put that in place. So now I work here. I do something every morning.

And it’s interesting, I had a conversation with a friend, and she told me her husband had been cheating on her for four years, and she knew about it for two years, and she stayed with him. At one point she told me, “I just wish he’d put me first for a change.” And then we're talking a bit more about other things, and she said she's not happy with her body, and she wants to lose weight. And she said, “I’m not like you. I’m not driven like you. If something’s going on with the kids or someone else, I’ll put them first and I won’t work out.” And I said, “Did you hear what you just said? You said that if something comes up, you put the kids first or someone else first. If you're showing everyone else that you come second, you're modeling how you want to be treated. So they're going to treat you like you're coming second all the time. Because if they think you're okay with that and you're modeling that, it’s going to keep happening. And she's like, “Whoa. You’re right.” And I see it all the time.

So here, it was around working out, but for other people, it might be around other stuff. And I think we all do it. We all set everyone else up for success first. Even with my workout, I get up early so that I can get all this stuff ready for them to pack the lunches and make breakfast. They pretty much do it, but I have to get it ready for them. So, I have to put them first somehow so I can do the thing. So, I'm still doing that. But I am modeling to them that my health and well-being is important to me and that I feel it's important for them to know and to respect. That’s what keeps me going with it, too.

It's funny, sometimes they get to the stage where I feel like they're getting too entitled around things. My thing with that is okay, so we've got to build into people gratitude, so I'll just take something away. Not being punitive or punishing them, but to build that gratitude instead of expectation. And also, the book I’m writing is called Ditch the Cape, so I have to do it first.

Anna: And you do it. Like, you do really live this. And I think that's what's so amazing and inspiring. So, thanks for doing that. And for raising three boys to know that, you know, this is the way things can be done. And this is the way a family works.

Danielle: I don’t want to send them out into the world looking for another mum to do things for them. I see the consequences of that in my work with women, that men aren't pulling their weight at home. It's still on the women. And because we don't have any girls, we’re a more gender-neutral family with one gender only, we don't get as much of the gender differences. So, work around the home isn't distributed along gender lines. It’s just work to be done. The difference, I’ve found, is all to do with the parents because the mother and father act along the gender lines. If the mom’s doing everything for the boys or girls, then the gender code plays out, in marriages and beyond. But if the parents just put jobs in a big pot, the more you can do that, the more you don’t see that.

 This is a 4-part interview series with Anna McKay, Founder of Parent’s Pivot and Danielle Dobson of Code Conversations. If you are interested in learning more about how you can successfully pivot to paid work, contact Anna today.

Return to Work Success Story Part 3: Danielle Dobson

Transferable skills are critically important for moms returning to paid work. It builds value, confidence for both the working mom and for the teams they join. In the third part of this 4-part interview series with Danielle Dobson’s return to work success story, she lists transferrable skills that helped her put her foot back into the business world. To catch up with the interview, read part 1 and part 2.  

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Anna: What were some of the transferable skills between parenting and working for you?

Danielle: Previously, I had a career in finance, so I developed skills and mastery around problem-solving, organization, planning and scheduling, measuring outcomes, and speaking to people. I was in audit, and my last role was internal audit, and I learned how to get things out of people by listening to them and understanding them. Financial literacy and awareness, I completely underestimated that. So definitely having that and just my general strengths that I guess I've always had—resourcefulness, motivation and drive. I just brought all those strengths and skills to my role of parenting.

Anna: But from your role of parenting to this new role that you have…

Danielle: Critical thinking. It might seem crazy, but I've got three young boys and have often had the case of “Who do I save first? The one who’s going to fall off the deck? The one who’s going to run out into the road? Or the one who’s just about to smash his head?” And people might say, “That has nothing to do with the business world,” but it's like lightning quick, and you have to prioritize.

And then things like scheduling. I have to get that person set up and all the obstacles out

of their way so they're in a good position to be able to carry on with this. Removing obstacles to set others up for success. That was a big one.

Creativity – As moms we’re incredibly creative with setting up connections and opportunities for our kids and other people’s.

Collaboration – with groups, with other parents, with teachers. Meeting the needs of people with entirely different objectives and emotional discombobulation, getting them to all move together in a team, is hard. So, motivation and drive. Finding out what makes people tick and how to motivate them to get in on the group mission.

Innovative thinking. You’ve got to be so innovative and creative all the time as a parent. Adaptability, flexibility, empathy, and perspective. I think perspective was one of the biggest ones. You have to always understand that person in front of you [unsure] and how to get the best out of them.

Anna: Definitely. Yeah, that's awesome. If you can work with a two-year-old and get the best out of a two-year-old, you can do that out of a 42-year-old.

Danielle: I think one of the biggest things is there’s a blessing and a curse. I didn't know anything about child raising, so I was feeling my way the whole time. And I thought the only way I can do this thing is to understand each of my kids, what makes them tick individually and uniquely. I brought my strength of curiosity to that. I was always asking, “What makes them do that? Why are they doing that?” trying to understand them. Because the only way I could do this parenting gig was to understand each one individually. Or trying to relate to them and motivating them by how they respond individually. There's no one size fits all. And there's a thousand books on parenting, but there's no one book. So, you’ve got to feel your way.

Anna: And I know that you use your research skills of figuring out all the pieces of information from those parenting books that were helpful for you. Just like you're figuring out all the pieces of the research that you're having to pick through for your book. I mean, I think that's really pretty cool.

Danielle: And I think the more we look for all of those similarities and how we show up in different realms, the more we can be congruent and have the flow. Rather than looking at how they’re all different.

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This is a 4-part interview series with Anna McKay, Founder of Parent’s Pivot and Danielle Dobson of Code Conversations. If you are interested in learning more about how you can successfully pivot to paid work, contact Anna today.

Return to Work Success Story: Meet Danielle Dobson

Danielle Dobson and Anna McKay with some friends at Anna’s baby shower.

I’m thrilled to be surrounded by many women who inspire me as leaders and entrepreneurs in their fields. Danielle Dobson is a good friend of mine that I met when we were both living in Beijing as expats. Our children were in the same play group together and we connected over our desire to succeed in both motherhood and business.

Danielle was one of many of the talented mothers that I looked up to in our playgroup. I learned all sorts of parenting tips from her during that time and the entire play group was full of super talented women who had paused their careers to move overseas with their spouses. We were all trying to figure out what we wanted to do when we returned to our home countries. The mothers in that play group were part of the inspiration for me to start Parents Pivot!

I’ve stayed in touch with Danielle, who has since started her own business called Code Conversations. She is full of wisdom, which she was gracious enough to share with me to pass along to the Parents Pivot community. In this first part of a four-part interview series, you can read along as Danielle and I chat about transitioning back to paid work. She opens up about the ups and downs of balancing motherhood and a career, and encourages others to not hide behind the masks we tend to put up.

Enjoy!

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Anna: What was it like transitioning back to paid work for you?

Danielle: It was a challenge because at first, I didn't actually want to do it. I had to do it.

After a separation and divorce, I wanted to be financially independent and secure. But I still felt like my heart was in my old world, the stay at home mom world. I'd always had projects, and I'd always done things. I did personal training and wellness coaching on the side for a while. So, I was always educating myself and learning things. And I was involved in the kids’ school on the PTA. I was also involved in local sporting clubs in the health and wellbeing area, similar sort of core missions.

But you know, my experience of the workforce was the sort of ego-driven, short-term

world of financing, particularly engineering services. So, you know, big boys’ toys and machines, and all that sort of thing. And it all just seemed so short-term, and I felt returning to that sort

of view of the paid workforce, where it's all about shareholder wealth and increasing the wealth of the people at the top of the company, that’s all I saw with work. I didn't really see anything much more than I was getting from it at that time.

For me, the mission of raising healthy flourishing humans was important, and I didn't want to jeopardize that. I was stuck in this place where I didn't want to leave my old world and jump into the world of paid work. There was so much tension.

And then I conducted this research project. It was like I just wanted to understand people more to be able to coach them. I saw all these women who seemed to do both parenting and working well.

I had always put my heart and soul into my career, giving it 110%. And I didn't see how I could do that and parenting and feel like I was doing well at both. I decided to be a stay at home parent. That was always a big fear about going back into paid work—jeopardizing my role as a parent. And I didn't see a good enough reason to jeopardize it. 

But then I started to see people who had great careers on paper, but who were also contributing to other people's lives through their leadership and through their impact in the workplace. And they were sharing how they became a better leader and a better person after being a parent and how it benefited them in the workplace. And I was like, “Whoa, I didn't know that this was possible in the workplace and maybe all this time I've been putting all my eggs in one basket."

That was the worst time because I felt like my contribution didn't really matter as a stay at home parent AND I wasn't in paid employment.

And then I tapped into this higher mission of sharing everything that all these women had been sharing with me through the interviews and helping others flourish, and just ditching the cape and dropping the Wonder Woman myth. Because I wanted to help them. I want to fix it, yesterday. So that became my mission.

The research project gave me a sense of professional contribution again, to something bigger. It's helped me become a better parent and a better leader because I’ve been using all this practice from leadership, from these people I’ve been interviewing, with my parenting. All these boundary conversations and tough conversations and shared missions and easy wins—all these really great best practices that women leaders who are lead parents are sharing with me, I've been using myself at home with the boys. And I’ve been experimenting with it and sharing it with others.

I'm looking at all the similarities between parenting and leadership and how they actually work well together in parallel, rather than being separate parts of our world. If we look at them differently, like they're part of a big circle, like a big part of who we are, then we're not juggling all these balls. We're not straddling two worlds like a big juggling act. We actually have an opportunity to step into a new world, bringing everything with us. We’re in charge, we’re writing our own code.

Anna: It’s like we're being our whole selves. And as long as we're being who we are, we just need to show up like that everywhere. 

Danielle: No shields, no masks. It takes energy to keep up 2 separate personas. But if you are uniquely who you are in all your spaces and all your roles, then you are spending less energy trying to be someone who you are not and you bring your strengths to all aspects of your life.

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This is a 4-part interview series with Anna McKay, Founder of Parent’s Pivot and Danielle Dobson of Code Conversations. If you are interested in learning more about how you can successfully pivot to paid work, contact Anna today.